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Now for something different...
August 6th 2003, 02:03 CEST by Matt Perkins

As you can see in this article and from numerous other (interesting read) sources, gay marriages are the current 'hot topic'.  Why?

Because Canada passed some laws in some places that make them ok and the Supreme Court said you can't put a man in jail for sodomizing a consenting adult in the privacy of his own home.  And not only did they say that, but the court said what you do in your home in the pursuit of love and companionship, is yours to say (to paraphrase).  To many this is seen as a battle cry and to others a warning of the decline of our society.

My question is this...  Not including the religious fanatics out there, is this truly a big deal?  Does it matter if man marries man or woman marries woman?  If so, why?  

Including the religious fanatics that say the bible says gay = bad, I say, the lord likes the smell of burning meat wafting towards the heavens (the bible tells me so)…sacrificed a lamb recently?


And on somewhat separate note, many people have brought up the idea of gay marriages as only a step from polygamy and incest relations being approved next.  Is this as out there as it sounds?  Am I missing something where this logic applies?
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#36 by Ashiran
2003-08-06 15:53:14
Bago:
You know, the world would be a whole lot better off if people just stopped caring.

Some things would be better, some things would be worse.

Anyway this whole gay marriage thing doesn't play here anyway. As a matter of fact, 82% of the dutch population said the Vatican can stuff it.

"Your beam weapons are just a thinly-veiled analogy for giant throbbing plasma cocks violating new orifices in enemy ships." - Bailey
#37 by Desiato
2003-08-06 15:54:13
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
That's a lawn-burning consensus!
#38 by Warren Marshall
2003-08-06 15:54:47
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Well, they're all high, so ...

#39 by Caryn
2003-08-06 17:15:17
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
I'm convinced that the majority of people don't care if two people of the same sex get married. But as gunpoint said, the people who believe it should be illegal are fanatic about it, and fanatics are intense, driven people who are loud enough to appear to represent the majority, and they have the drive and ambition to get laws passed against it, whereas those who couldn't care less who marries who won't take action either way.

I myself think gay marriage should be legal and I think the Pope wailing on about the sanctity of marriage while he's protecting child-diddling priests is disgusting and abominable.

SNIKT!
#40 by Dawn Keedik
2003-08-06 17:46:39
http://www.thedonkeyshow.com
If the church can approve of a gay bishop, it'll soon allow gay unions.

Putting Yours to Shame Daily!
#41 by """Balderama"""
2003-08-06 17:46:41
support@real.com www.planetcrap.com
Gunp01nt is clearly gay. What else would he need those rights for?
#42 by Chunkstyle
2003-08-06 17:55:31
Dawn-

Different church.

There's joy in repetition.
#43 by Hieronymus
2003-08-06 17:58:29
There is a reason why slippery slope arguments are a logical fallicy.  If the government feels that polygamy is bad while gay marriage is good, they can easily pass a law saying that.  The constitution (in Canada, I can't speak for American or Dutch law) states that "The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society."   The question is, where do these "reasonable limits" lie?  Myself, the courts, and just over half the population believe that gay marriage fall well within these limits.  That being said, I remember a CBC report some time ago (well before the gay marriage rulings) that there was a small religous community in BC that practised polygamy.  Nobody was charged because the crown felt that they would lose a constitutional challenge to the law.

The pope has also brought up the separation of church and state.  An Albertan bishop has stated that Prime Minister Chretien, who is catholic, was in danger of eternal damnation.  Chretien, to his credit, politely told him to piss off.  There is a real disconnect between rural, religous conservative folks and urban, secular liberal folks.  It would appear that the secular humanists will win.  Good.

Hieronymus
#44 by Dawn Keedik
2003-08-06 17:59:15
http://www.thedonkeyshow.com
The church has been bending over for years, literally and figuratively.  It doesn't matter which congregation or denomination, they all have a tolerance for deviant fornication.

They can't alienate their clergy.  In many aspects it sickens and disgusts me.  I see more traditional values in countries outside the US when it comes to religion and the church.

This country (The divided states of America) has adopted a monoculture sense of worth and is driven by pure greed.  I do not like green eggs and ham.

Putting Yours to Shame Daily!
#45 by Dawn Keedik
2003-08-06 18:02:01
http://www.thedonkeyshow.com
As a matter of fact, 82% of the dutch population said the Vatican can stuff it.


And 1% of them look like Buster Brown, that 1% being you.

Putting Yours to Shame Daily!
#46 by m0nty
2003-08-06 18:13:58
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
John Farnham fronting Queen would be like John Tesh joining Metallica.
#47 by """Balderama"""
2003-08-06 18:14:39
support@real.com www.planetcrap.com
Leviticus 18:6 None of you shall approach to any that are near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness.


From Here.

Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature: 1:27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.


From Here.

Like Joker said, the church and most religions these days are worthless. They don't even follow their own rules.
#48 by Trolly McTroll
2003-08-06 18:16:03
quit trying to justify your gay marriage and get a job

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - ZEP
" If i ever have a daughter, I'm going to name her Trolly. - The_Joker
#49 by Bailey
2003-08-06 18:18:39
Pick one troll identity and stick with it.

Scotch makes you good at a lot of things, like yelling at your wife, but it’s terrible for hand-eye coordination.
#50 by """Balderama"""
2003-08-06 18:23:32
support@real.com www.planetcrap.com
#48 Well if it isn't Mr. Fuckmeuptheass. Long time no see, bitch. Been hanging out in the gay bars? It sure got you dumber you stupid fuck, because otherwise you'd realize my post wasn't justifying gay marriages.
#51 by Hugin
2003-08-06 18:24:39
lmccain@nber.org
Bah.  There are a hundred ways in which the realities of modern society conflict with scripture.  The church needs to evolve or die.  Meanwhile, the state needs to afford all of it's citizens the same legal protections and benefits.
#52 by """Balderama"""
2003-08-06 18:31:39
support@real.com www.planetcrap.com
The church cannot evolve unless anything in the Bible changes, and that's not possible. So what should happen is that it should die.
#53 by Trolly McTroll
2003-08-06 18:35:27
the church is dead, they created their own death by bending to the will of the sheeple.  and Baldy, put the bong down.  It's o.k. that you married a man.  We tolerate you.  kinda..  fag

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - ZEP
" If i ever have a daughter, I'm going to name her Trolly. - The_Joker
#54 by ProStyle
2003-08-06 18:37:22
http://prostyle.deviantart.com
But then who would they pay to get in to heaven?

I'm like a quote out of context...
#55 by G-Man
2003-08-06 18:38:01
...an ethereal being... in #35 said:
Would this handle the health care and probate issues that gay/lesbian couples encounter?
Yes, absolutely. Because partnerships automatically dissolve upon the death of a partner with all assets reverting to the surviving partner. So no probate at all - or a tax hit. And the healthcare issues are satisfied the normal way by executing power of attorney to each other.

As for the whole Church doctrine conflicting with the literal text of the Bible:

You have to understand that the way the Church views it, the Bible holds meaning on multiple levels beyond the mere plain meaning of the words. E.g. there are many metaphors being employed and other deeper lessons that must be laboriously puzzled from the text. To that end religious scholars have been employed for thousands of years to provide exegesis of the rules which Catholics should follow in their daily lives. And because of the complexities of the original text some of these rules are in direct conflict with the literal meaning of the Bible text. Also the Pope is infallible so when he contradicts something it is like God making a revision or issuing a patch.
#56 by """Balderama"""
2003-08-06 18:39:44
support@real.com www.planetcrap.com
McHomo: I wouldn't be surprised if you turned out to be that gay bishop.
#57 by Hugin
2003-08-06 18:40:26
lmccain@nber.org
Clearly, the church has evolved on some issues, so change is obviously possible.
#58 by Desiato
2003-08-06 18:41:40
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
You're all robosexuals.

Especially the programmers.
#59 by """Balderama"""
2003-08-06 18:45:10
support@real.com www.planetcrap.com
#57 by changing they break their own rules and lose credibility. like approving homosexuality.
#60 by CheesyPoof
2003-08-06 18:50:42
There are many churches and denominations.  The one with the official gay bishop is not affiliated with the Vatican.
#61 by Charles
2003-08-06 19:42:34
www.bluh.org
You're all robosexuals.

Especially the programmers.


My sex-bot doubles as a kill-bot, so you might want to watch your mouth.

How many it had cost in the amassing, what blood and sorrow, what good ships scuttled on the deep, what brave men walking the plank blindfold, what shot of cannon, what shame and lies and cruelty, perhaps no man alive could tell.
#62 by Sgt Hulka
2003-08-06 20:06:05
If you attend a gay church, do you get a button?

Doomed! the Movie - Videogames Turn Deadly...
#63 by Desiato
2003-08-06 20:06:46
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
I'd be more afraid of a pusher-bot.
#64 by Bailey
2003-08-06 20:08:38
I'm no robo-sexual, I'm a debugger.

Scotch makes you good at a lot of things, like yelling at your wife, but it’s terrible for hand-eye coordination.
#65 by bago
2003-08-06 20:10:57
manga_Rando@hotmail.com

to prevent archie from marrying me...


Uhm.. wouldn't a simple "no" suffice? If you need a law to prevent archie from marrying you... you've got issues no law can solve.

#66 by Sgt Hulka
2003-08-06 20:11:06
I got your debugger right here!

/me grabs crotch

Doomed! the Movie - Videogames Turn Deadly...
#67 by Warren Marshall
2003-08-06 20:15:26
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
A debugger usually removes bugs.

#68 by ProStyle
2003-08-06 20:25:54
http://prostyle.deviantart.com
Stop trying to make sense - you know very well we'll have none of that here!

I'm like a quote out of context...
#69 by Matt Perkins
2003-08-06 20:29:16
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
To ask a question about religion for a sec.  How can you quote from the old testament and call that the will of god?  Do you burn meat because god finds it pleasing?  Do like the idea that we can all talk to each, build tall buildings and that angered the gods before so we shall have to be seperated again?

The old testament is full interesting things about how we should and shouldn't be.  If you are going to go by part of it as the truth, go by the whole thing.  IMHO.

And as for the church changing...  Forgetting my dislike of churches (and the whole idea surrounding them) for a sec, it is somehow wrong for a religion to change?  For the church to continue to grow as a orginization?  Is the goal of an orginized religion to find set rules and never change them?  Doesn't that mean the people that follow those rules will cease to thing for themselves, cease to advance their minds in thought about their god, whoever that may be?  I'm thinking calling for religions to be static is kinda backward...



I can't say I fully understand western religion from a worshipers point of view...  or all of any religion for that matter.  Though Huna and Taoism are probably closest to what I think currently.

I was just over posting on QT3.  Did you know they talk about games?  What an interesting idea.
#70 by Charles
2003-08-06 21:16:38
www.bluh.org
Because religions are based on bullshit, they have to keep changing to remain afloat.  If they didn't, they'd sink.

How many it had cost in the amassing, what blood and sorrow, what good ships scuttled on the deep, what brave men walking the plank blindfold, what shot of cannon, what shame and lies and cruelty, perhaps no man alive could tell.
#71 by Matt Perkins
2003-08-06 21:36:36
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
But that's not what Dawn suggested above...  At least that's not how I read it.

I was just over posting on QT3.  Did you know they talk about games?  What an interesting idea.
#72 by Leslie Nassar
2003-08-06 21:42:10
http://departmentofinternets.com
#include <drLauraEmail.h>

"There are design firms out there that could come up with things we've never thought of," Jobs continued, "things that would make you shit in your pants."
#73 by bago
2003-08-06 21:54:04
manga_Rando@hotmail.com
Taoism! fun with interpretation!

#74 by G-Man
2003-08-06 22:08:45
Charles in #70 said:
Because religions are based on bullshit, they have to keep changing to remain afloat.  If they didn't, they'd sink.
This statement is representative of a very shallow perspective on Judeo-Christian religions. I'll try to give you an example of how a religious ruling might change over time without causing a paradox or hypocrisy.

In Judaism, one of the central commandments that worshippers seek to obey, is to observe the Sabbath. The Sabbath is the interval between sunset on Friday evening and sunset on Saturday night. Observing the Sabbath requires that worshippers perform certain rituals and abstain from certain activities during this interval. All of this is literally proscribed in the Torah, which is the sacred text of Judaism.

When the rule was formulated the people of that era were aware that the lengths of days changed as the seasons progressed. They were also aware of the occurence (although probably not the cause) of celestial phenomena such as lunar and solar eclipses. But adjusting for such circumstances was relatively simple, one simply considered the Sabbath to begin when the sun had completed setting, or on the occassion of an eclipse when the sun would otherwise normally be setting.

Enter the modern age, when Jewish people could now travel to the far reaches of the Earth, most notably the Arctic and Antarctic regions. In these regions of the planet there are extended periods without a sunset or sunrise. As early as the 18th century, Jewish travellers were stymied by this peculiar phenomenon, and did not know what the proper way to observe the Sabbath was in such circumstances. Some thought that since the sun did not set, that the Sabbath should not be observed at all. Others figured that was what important was not the sun setting per se, and so observed the Sabbath by just picking a day randomly and just choosing a set time as "sunset". Still others thought that the proper way was to remember the day that you began your journey and to continually count the hours and days so that every six 24 hour days from the last Sabbath you should consider as the beginning of the new Sabbath.

It is circumstances like this which necessitate religion interpretation by scholars dedicated to religious study. The dillemna in this particular case was resolved by years of heated debate among such scholars. But then modern science intervened again and the advent of space travel introduced another dillemna. In space, unless the craft maintains a geosynchronous orbit (which is very expensive from a fuel perspective) you will be orbiting the Earth either faster or slower than normal (usually much faster), with the result that you will witness sunrises and sunsets at a different rate than Earth-bound individuals. So the question became: How should Jewish astronauts observe the Sabbath? Should they observe it by counting sunsets and sunrises as complete days (in which case they might have to observe the Sabbath nearly every day)?

Anyway, I hope I didn't bore you too much with this, but I just think that many of you who are criticizing organized religions don't really understand the real issues that are involved. I should note that despite my using Judaism as an example, I am not Jewish nor am I, in fact, religious at all.
#75 by yotsuya
2003-08-06 22:14:05
Just to piggyback off G-Man, it's all up to interpitation. Some Christians are fundamentalists, other's aren't. Some Jews are strict in their observance, others aren't. Not every Muslim out there thinks you should kill/die for Allah. It's just the extreme sects get the most coverage. You'll hear about a fundamentalist Christian who shoots an abortion doctor or a Buddhist monk who lights himself on fire- you won't hear about a guy who goes to church and .... does nothing bad.

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#76 by yotsuya
2003-08-06 22:14:38
OK, I'm ready to get back into teacher mode.

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#77 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-08-06 22:27:10
Because religions are based on bullshit, they have to keep changing to remain afloat.  If they didn't, they'd sink.

I don't think it's terribly relevant what a religion is based on, be it bullshit or fact, if people aren't willing to follow it or the rules it sets out anymore the religion will sink. Religions change to keep up with society and people's changing beliefs, values and understanding of the universe. Whether they're bullshit or not is a seperate issue and of course unproveable since they're based on faith and is therefore up to each individual to decide for themselves.

I kid cause I care.
#78 by Eric T. Cheng
2003-08-06 22:28:15
erictcheng@hotmail.com
When the rule was formulated the people of that era were aware that the lengths of days changed as the seasons progressed. They were also aware of the occurence (although probably not the cause) of celestial phenomena such as lunar and solar eclipses. But adjusting for such circumstances was relatively simple, one simply considered the Sabbath to begin when the sun had completed setting, or on the occassion of an eclipse when the sun would otherwise normally be setting.


Didn't a problem arise when recently there was an Israeli astronaut onboard one of the shuttles?

Just to piggyback off G-Man, it's all up to interpitation. Some Christians are fundamentalists, other's aren't. Some Jews are strict in their observance, others aren't. Not every Muslim out there thinks you should kill/die for Allah.


One of my ex-coworkers from a past company is Jewish, albeit a long-haired secular anarchist hippy Jew, who LOVED porkchops.

Kilt Wearing Pixel Pushing Monkey Boy
IMDB Entry
DVD Collection
#79 by Leslie Nassar
2003-08-06 22:43:14
http://departmentofinternets.com
Didn't a problem arise when recently there was an Israeli astronaut onboard one of the shuttles?

It was a problem, and the solution the religious scholars came up with displeased God so much that he smited the whole crew.

"There are design firms out there that could come up with things we've never thought of," Jobs continued, "things that would make you shit in your pants."
#80 by Ashiran
2003-08-06 22:44:05
I don't have any problems with any religion really, just the parts where it feels the need to convert or annihilate the non-believers.

Which is why I consider Budhism for example problem free.

"Your beam weapons are just a thinly-veiled analogy for giant throbbing plasma cocks violating new orifices in enemy ships." - Bailey
#81 by Trolly McTroll
2003-08-06 22:45:56
Budhism ate me bubby.

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - ZEP
" If i ever have a daughter, I'm going to name her Trolly. - The_Joker
#82 by Matt Perkins
2003-08-06 22:54:57
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
Ash

If you're right, call 'em out.

I was just over posting on QT3.  Did you know they talk about games?  What an interesting idea.
#83 by Caryn
2003-08-06 22:58:03
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
#78 Eric T. Cheng
Didn't a problem arise when recently there was an Israeli astronaut onboard one of the shuttles?


G-Man raised that very issue in an entire paragraph in the post you just quoted.

SNIKT!
#84 by CultureShock
2003-08-06 22:59:52
Tolerating sickening perversions behind closed doors is one thing. Allowing these disgusting carriers of moral slackness to evanglise themselves via the state endorsed institution of marriage is beyond the pale. The Spartans were a bunch of screaming queens, and got knocked out by the Greeks. The Greeks chased little boys and got knocked out by Rome. The Romans turned into a bunch of shirt lifters, and look what happened to them. This cancer is spreading through western society and the result is inevitable. China and the Muslim world, where this vileness isn't tolerated, is going to supplant the west as the dominant culture for the next 1000 years. Forget the war on Drugs. Forget the war on terror. The real target is the enemy within. Remember the slogan, "The only way is to kill a gay!"

"Save the attitude for someone who cares." - Judge Dredd
#85 by Trolly McTroll
2003-08-06 23:01:31
Culturebaby, please run for president.  You're giving me Ovarian Lust liek I've never known.

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - ZEP
" If i ever have a daughter, I'm going to name her Trolly. - The_Joker
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