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Save anywhere?  Bah.  Save EVERYWHERE!
November 12th 2003, 01:17 CET by Jibble

Okay folks, we've beaten the "save anywhere" debate to death...now there's a new wrench being hurled defiantly into the craws of the dissenters: "save everywhere all the time every second of the game".

We're talking Prince of Persia here.

From here.

Yes, it's true: One of the most original features in Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time has its roots in a game based on Donald Duck. When Mallat started prodding the team for ideas of a "gameplay keystone," Desilets brought up an idea he had proposed to the producer on his last Donald Duck game. In a nutshell, he wanted to let players rewind the game after they died. "I remember playing the Donald Duck game, and when I died, I wanted to just go back in time a few seconds instead of having to replay the whole level," says Desilets.

The producer on the Donald Duck game dismissed the idea, but Mallat seemed more receptive. "I think we all began to realize that by rewinding the game, the player would have a never-ending checkpoint," says Mallat. "We also knew a feature like that could become really important in an acrobatic game where you are always making jumps and trying to avoid traps." But while the idea sounded great, no one knew if it was technologically possible to let a player rewind the game on a PlayStation 2.


Turns out they figured it out, and it's included in the game (which was released a few days ago).  The original Prince of Persia was well known to be one of the most frustrating games of all time, with death looming around every corner, in every spike pit, on every floor tile.  While the new game seems to tout an incredible acrobatic system and the environments in which to properly use it, is this a case where the game is impossibly difficult just because it can be?
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Home » Topic: Save anywhere?  Bah.  Save EVERYWHERE!

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#30 by Jibble
2003-11-12 15:33:14
#27 Your Friend

Original feature?

I guess the person writing for Gamespot never played Blinx....

Blinx was not at all a great game, nor even a very good one, but it did this first.

I was going to mention Blinx in my topic, but it was such a poor game it's barely worth mentioning.

PANZERFAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUST
#31 by UncleJeet
2003-11-12 15:38:44
I was just trying to imagine playing Unreal 2 with a rewind feature, or any feature that made me play it more than I had to just to slog through it.  My eyes bled.

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#32 by Creole Ned
2003-11-12 15:52:24
Since it's available for PC and console, anyone have any insight into which version of PoP: SoT controls better? Is it "You got a console title in my PC game" or "You got a PC title in my console game"?

The rewind feature sounds interesting. I'm not sure I'd like to see it in every action game out there, though. Wisely-chosen checkpoint saves can still work well and a game that allows save-anywhere would benefit from being designed as if the player only had the checkpoints available. Giving the player more choices is generally not a bad thing, as long as the choices are clear.

"I don't bemoan the great paste" - LPMiller
#33 by UncleJeet
2003-11-12 16:03:33
I wouldn't want to play it on the PC without a gamepad with analog controls, but apart from that I don't think it'd matter what you played it on.  I'm playing it on the ps2 right now, a console that I generally despise, and I'm greatly enjoying the experience.

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#34 by Warren Marshall
2003-11-12 16:11:07
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#31 UncleJeet
I was just trying to imagine playing Unreal 2 with a rewind feature, or any feature that made me play it more than I had to just to slog through it.  My eyes bled.

My parser is partially choking on this, but at any rate ... you might want to try going after a game I actually worked on if you're trying to get to me.  Wheel of Time, for instance.

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#35 by UncleJeet
2003-11-12 16:15:07
Er, check the undeserved ego?  When I think of bad games I've played in the past year, Unreal 2 just leaps to mind....notice I didn't say Bubble Bomb.

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#36 by Duality
2003-11-12 16:15:31
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
WoT sucks.

Actually, I don't know.  I've just never trolled that before.

#37 by Warren Marshall
2003-11-12 16:20:31
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#35 UncleJeet
Er, check the undeserved ego?  When I think of bad games I've played in the past year, Unreal 2 just leaps to mind....notice I didn't say Bubble Bomb.

Since I insulted Nocturne and in your next post after that you insulted Unreal2, I assumed it was aimed at me.  My mistake.

May your uncoordinated spamming continue...

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#38 by Warren Marshall
2003-11-12 16:20:47
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#36 Duality
WoT sucks.

Actually, I don't know.  I've just never trolled that before.

You'll never get your diploma at this rate.

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#39 by yotsuya
2003-11-12 16:22:50
jafd? Is that you?

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#40 by UncleJeet
2003-11-12 16:22:56
Yes, your Nocturne comment wounded me deeply as I've never known anyone to think it a bad game before!  Heh, get over yourself chief....Outside of Bubble Bomb, I don't imagine I've ever played a game you've worked on.  Sorry.  :(

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#41 by Duality
2003-11-12 16:24:59
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
You'll never get your diploma at this rate.

Oh who am I kidding.  I could never compete with the seasoned veterans!

#42 by Warren Marshall
2003-11-12 16:36:42
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#40 UncleJeet
Yes, your Nocturne comment wounded me deeply as I've never known anyone to think it a bad game before!  Heh, get over yourself chief....Outside of Bubble Bomb, I don't imagine I've ever played a game you've worked on.  Sorry.  :(

Trying ...

Nope, still not caring.  Sorry!

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#43 by Bailey
2003-11-12 16:58:24
Original feature?

I guess the person writing for Gamespot never played Blinx....

Blinx was not at all a great game, nor even a very good one, but it did this first.

Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it... and then rewind it, and repeat it some more.

re: Avatar Icon
#44 by Charles
2003-11-12 17:02:10
www.bluh.org
I think it would be neat to mix this feature in with a playback system, so you could watch yourself playing the game.

christmas is for shopping and the shopping god is everything
#45 by Jibble
2003-11-12 17:04:15
Yes, segment the screen into three parts.  The middle would be real-time, the left side would be 10 seconds ago, and the right side would be what'll happen if you try that jump or what's waiting around the next corner.

PANZERFAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUST
#46 by Greg
2003-11-12 17:06:44
I'm not a fan of save anywhere (the min/maxing aspect, not the "I have to quit, and don't want to redo large portions" aspect), because I feel there are alternatives that would be better for a player. This looks like one of those alternatives.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#47 by Greg
2003-11-12 17:07:03
Charles, that was also done in Blinx.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#48 by Greg
2003-11-12 17:08:14
Er, nevermind. I thought you mean rewinding and playing back with two copies of yourself running around. Not what you had talked about before.. replaying the entire game like Gran Turismo.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#49 by Charles
2003-11-12 17:10:02
www.bluh.org
I don't think blinx is a valid comparison because it wasn't something you could just do.  Before you could use any of the time mechanics, you had to go through a bunch of stupid item collecting hoops.  Not only that, but you couldn't play back your game, start to finish.  It was only for the tiny parts in which you used the record power up.

christmas is for shopping and the shopping god is everything
#50 by Phayyde
2003-11-12 17:20:52
Save everywhere is wasteful.  Save anywhere is right.  Demo record/playback is an old feature.  Why turn these things on alla time by default?

These ideas alone aren't particularly new or potent.

Beat to fit, paint to match.
#51 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-11-12 17:32:46
I think it would be neat to mix this feature in with a playback system, so you could watch yourself playing the game.

Hook up the ol' VCR and record the game. I had friends who did this back in the nes days when they were trying to finish contra without dying. Endless hours were wasted watching and analysing levels over and over, I don't remember if they actually succeeded or not though.

I kid cause I care.
#52 by Trolly McTroll
2003-11-12 17:40:36
#51 TheTrunkDr.
I think it would be neat to mix this feature in with a playback system, so you could watch yourself playing the game.

Hook up the ol' VCR and record the game. I had friends who did this back in the nes days when they were trying to finish contra without dying. Endless hours were wasted watching and analysing levels over and over, I don't remember if they actually succeeded or not though.



My favorite character from the facts of live TV show was always Blair, but only because of her glorious hair.

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - ZEP
" If i ever have a daughter, I'm going to name her Trolly. - The_Joker
"Fuck are you stupid. Kiwi is a bird. Fucking moron. " - lwf
#53 by Jibble
2003-11-12 17:54:53
Okay, that's 50, now on to the land of off-topic.

CNN admits to making make college students look like idiots when it comes to politics.  I for one am pretty pissed that they'd stand in the way of someone asking a pertinent question in favor of evoking an EMM TEE VEE MOMENT OMGLOL!

PANZERFAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUST
#54 by DEATH KILLER INTERNATIONAL (INTERGALACTIC DIVISION
2003-11-12 18:10:46
deathkillerint@hotmail.com
JIBBA JIBBER JIBBLE JABBA

/me high-fives <insert recently deceased celebrity here>
#55 by DEATH KILLER INTERNATIONAL (INTERGALACTIC DIVISION
2003-11-12 18:11:21
deathkillerint@hotmail.com
`sup trolly, bob, joker, warran marshill

/me high-fives <insert recently deceased celebrity here>
#56 by DeeC
2003-11-12 18:22:04
Save anywhere, just not here.

"No man should have to be." - Ping Wo Me
#57 by UncleJeet
2003-11-12 18:53:00
Trying ...

Nope, still not caring.  Sorry!


Lol....next time try and express your not caring by not posting.  Methinks he doth protest too much....

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#58 by BobJustBob
2003-11-12 19:21:33
It still bothers me at a fundamental level that people can be against save-anywhere. "I want LESS player convenience!" But don't start that again.

Yo Death.

Dood.
#59 by zimbardo_ugly
2003-11-12 19:50:37
zimbardo_ugly@hotmail.com
I never once used quick save on the default difficulty level of Call of Duty. It auto-saves often enough and the challenge is incredibly balanced - when you play that game, save anywhere in a game which is frustratingly difficult seems like a cop-out by the developer. Please note how much better the gameplay is when you don't have to F6 every time you fire a shot / jump a nasty rift. Save anywhere should be a Lacmus for game design acidity - if you absolutely have to implement it, you're not doing something right and your gameplay is sour.

"Warez non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem"
#60 by Neale
2003-11-12 19:51:12
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
OMG! EVIL GAEMSPY!!!111

You can't derail this train of idiocy, Shadarr. Not even with a big fat cow of logic on the tracks. - Bailey
#61 by DeeC
2003-11-12 19:52:04
I think freedom should be the first and foremost issue here. You don't HAVE to save everywhere, even if you can. In games like Silent hill 3, that has included a "save anywhere" feature, the player do get "rewarded" for saving few times. Still, I'm personally bloody happy that I don't have to experience a "cut-scene of certain death" when entering a specific area, having to do a bunch of stuff over again. Save everywhere, if you feel like it.

"No man should have to be." - Ping Wo Me
#62 by DeeC
2003-11-12 19:52:44
oops. In the pc version of SH3 that is. Sorry.

"No man should have to be." - Ping Wo Me
#63 by Ergo
2003-11-12 19:53:18
Oh, sweet baby Jesus...

Here we go again.

Cogite tute.
DVDs
#64 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-11-12 19:54:58
and again and again and again...

I kid cause I care.
#65 by DeeC
2003-11-12 19:58:26
And now... Over to something completely different. Just had to answer zimbardo on that one. heh

"No man should have to be." - Ping Wo Me
#66 by Your Friend
2003-11-12 20:02:14
Save Anywhere sucks!

Comment Signature
#67 by Greg
2003-11-12 20:03:31
#63,

Read the title of the topic, and then wonder why you didn't put that as the first post.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#68 by Jibble
2003-11-12 20:05:38
Hey, I warned you.  If you didn't want it, you should have voted it out :)

PANZERFAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUST
#69 by DeeC
2003-11-12 20:08:10
I love it! Bring it on!

"No man should have to be." - Ping Wo Me
#70 by Trolly McTroll
2003-11-12 20:08:45
Gamespy is the Evil.

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - ZEP
" If i ever have a daughter, I'm going to name her Trolly. - The_Joker
"Fuck are you stupid. Kiwi is a bird. Fucking moron. " - lwf
#71 by Your Friend
2003-11-12 20:13:05
Save anywhere is really just a crutch for crappy game players.  Little n00b bitches can't play the game for real so they need to save it and reload it every 5 seconds.  n00bs!

Comment Signature
#72 by Ergo
2003-11-12 20:13:25
#68 Jibble
Hey, I warned you.  If you didn't want it, you should have voted it out :)

I TRIED.

Cogite tute.
DVDs
#73 by DeeC
2003-11-12 20:23:09
Save anywhere is really just a crutch for crappy game players.  Little n00b bitches can't play the game for real so they need to save it and reload it every 5 seconds.  n00bs!


I would say this varies from game to game. Like some places in Max payne 2 for instance. If having to restart over and over and over again kills a game for me, I'd rather quicksave to play through it than to throw it in the wastebin. But then again, smart game design can prevent this, like in Call of Duty as zimbardo points out.

"No man should have to be." - Ping Wo Me
#74 by Warren Marshall
2003-11-12 20:26:01
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
I can feel my brain bleeding.

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#75 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-11-12 20:29:49
come guys just a little more and we'll be able to finish him off!!!

I kid cause I care.
#76 by DeeC
2003-11-12 20:39:19
Warren Marshall

Don't you think that it would be great if all games had a rewind function and bla. bla. bla. bla. blah!?

"No man should have to be." - Ping Wo Me
#77 by Warren Marshall
2003-11-12 20:41:07
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Bluh.

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#78 by Desiato
2003-11-12 20:42:21
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
Gamespy invokes DMCA, street cred drops to negative 103823.

...like the color of a tv screen tuned to a dead channel.
#79 by Jibble
2003-11-12 20:44:25
#78 Desiato

Gamespy invokes DMCA, street cred drops to negative 103823.

Wow, went down a point...I should probably sell my stock.

PANZERFAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUST
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