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Save anywhere?  Bah.  Save EVERYWHERE!
November 12th 2003, 01:17 CET by Jibble

Okay folks, we've beaten the "save anywhere" debate to death...now there's a new wrench being hurled defiantly into the craws of the dissenters: "save everywhere all the time every second of the game".

We're talking Prince of Persia here.

From here.

Yes, it's true: One of the most original features in Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time has its roots in a game based on Donald Duck. When Mallat started prodding the team for ideas of a "gameplay keystone," Desilets brought up an idea he had proposed to the producer on his last Donald Duck game. In a nutshell, he wanted to let players rewind the game after they died. "I remember playing the Donald Duck game, and when I died, I wanted to just go back in time a few seconds instead of having to replay the whole level," says Desilets.

The producer on the Donald Duck game dismissed the idea, but Mallat seemed more receptive. "I think we all began to realize that by rewinding the game, the player would have a never-ending checkpoint," says Mallat. "We also knew a feature like that could become really important in an acrobatic game where you are always making jumps and trying to avoid traps." But while the idea sounded great, no one knew if it was technologically possible to let a player rewind the game on a PlayStation 2.


Turns out they figured it out, and it's included in the game (which was released a few days ago).  The original Prince of Persia was well known to be one of the most frustrating games of all time, with death looming around every corner, in every spike pit, on every floor tile.  While the new game seems to tout an incredible acrobatic system and the environments in which to properly use it, is this a case where the game is impossibly difficult just because it can be?
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Home » Topic: Save anywhere?  Bah.  Save EVERYWHERE!

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#47 by Greg
2003-11-12 17:07:03
Charles, that was also done in Blinx.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#48 by Greg
2003-11-12 17:08:14
Er, nevermind. I thought you mean rewinding and playing back with two copies of yourself running around. Not what you had talked about before.. replaying the entire game like Gran Turismo.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#49 by Charles
2003-11-12 17:10:02
www.bluh.org
I don't think blinx is a valid comparison because it wasn't something you could just do.  Before you could use any of the time mechanics, you had to go through a bunch of stupid item collecting hoops.  Not only that, but you couldn't play back your game, start to finish.  It was only for the tiny parts in which you used the record power up.

christmas is for shopping and the shopping god is everything
#50 by Phayyde
2003-11-12 17:20:52
Save everywhere is wasteful.  Save anywhere is right.  Demo record/playback is an old feature.  Why turn these things on alla time by default?

These ideas alone aren't particularly new or potent.

Beat to fit, paint to match.
#51 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-11-12 17:32:46
I think it would be neat to mix this feature in with a playback system, so you could watch yourself playing the game.

Hook up the ol' VCR and record the game. I had friends who did this back in the nes days when they were trying to finish contra without dying. Endless hours were wasted watching and analysing levels over and over, I don't remember if they actually succeeded or not though.

I kid cause I care.
#52 by Trolly McTroll
2003-11-12 17:40:36
#51 TheTrunkDr.
I think it would be neat to mix this feature in with a playback system, so you could watch yourself playing the game.

Hook up the ol' VCR and record the game. I had friends who did this back in the nes days when they were trying to finish contra without dying. Endless hours were wasted watching and analysing levels over and over, I don't remember if they actually succeeded or not though.



My favorite character from the facts of live TV show was always Blair, but only because of her glorious hair.

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - ZEP
" If i ever have a daughter, I'm going to name her Trolly. - The_Joker
"Fuck are you stupid. Kiwi is a bird. Fucking moron. " - lwf
#53 by Jibble
2003-11-12 17:54:53
Okay, that's 50, now on to the land of off-topic.

CNN admits to making make college students look like idiots when it comes to politics.  I for one am pretty pissed that they'd stand in the way of someone asking a pertinent question in favor of evoking an EMM TEE VEE MOMENT OMGLOL!

PANZERFAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUST
#54 by DEATH KILLER INTERNATIONAL (INTERGALACTIC DIVISION
2003-11-12 18:10:46
deathkillerint@hotmail.com
JIBBA JIBBER JIBBLE JABBA

/me high-fives <insert recently deceased celebrity here>
#55 by DEATH KILLER INTERNATIONAL (INTERGALACTIC DIVISION
2003-11-12 18:11:21
deathkillerint@hotmail.com
`sup trolly, bob, joker, warran marshill

/me high-fives <insert recently deceased celebrity here>
#56 by DeeC
2003-11-12 18:22:04
Save anywhere, just not here.

"No man should have to be." - Ping Wo Me
#57 by UncleJeet
2003-11-12 18:53:00
Trying ...

Nope, still not caring.  Sorry!


Lol....next time try and express your not caring by not posting.  Methinks he doth protest too much....

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#58 by BobJustBob
2003-11-12 19:21:33
It still bothers me at a fundamental level that people can be against save-anywhere. "I want LESS player convenience!" But don't start that again.

Yo Death.

Dood.
#59 by zimbardo_ugly
2003-11-12 19:50:37
zimbardo_ugly@hotmail.com
I never once used quick save on the default difficulty level of Call of Duty. It auto-saves often enough and the challenge is incredibly balanced - when you play that game, save anywhere in a game which is frustratingly difficult seems like a cop-out by the developer. Please note how much better the gameplay is when you don't have to F6 every time you fire a shot / jump a nasty rift. Save anywhere should be a Lacmus for game design acidity - if you absolutely have to implement it, you're not doing something right and your gameplay is sour.

"Warez non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem"
#60 by Neale
2003-11-12 19:51:12
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
OMG! EVIL GAEMSPY!!!111

You can't derail this train of idiocy, Shadarr. Not even with a big fat cow of logic on the tracks. - Bailey
#61 by DeeC
2003-11-12 19:52:04
I think freedom should be the first and foremost issue here. You don't HAVE to save everywhere, even if you can. In games like Silent hill 3, that has included a "save anywhere" feature, the player do get "rewarded" for saving few times. Still, I'm personally bloody happy that I don't have to experience a "cut-scene of certain death" when entering a specific area, having to do a bunch of stuff over again. Save everywhere, if you feel like it.

"No man should have to be." - Ping Wo Me
#62 by DeeC
2003-11-12 19:52:44
oops. In the pc version of SH3 that is. Sorry.

"No man should have to be." - Ping Wo Me
#63 by Ergo
2003-11-12 19:53:18
Oh, sweet baby Jesus...

Here we go again.

Cogite tute.
DVDs
#64 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-11-12 19:54:58
and again and again and again...

I kid cause I care.
#65 by DeeC
2003-11-12 19:58:26
And now... Over to something completely different. Just had to answer zimbardo on that one. heh

"No man should have to be." - Ping Wo Me
#66 by Your Friend
2003-11-12 20:02:14
Save Anywhere sucks!

Comment Signature
#67 by Greg
2003-11-12 20:03:31
#63,

Read the title of the topic, and then wonder why you didn't put that as the first post.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#68 by Jibble
2003-11-12 20:05:38
Hey, I warned you.  If you didn't want it, you should have voted it out :)

PANZERFAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUST
#69 by DeeC
2003-11-12 20:08:10
I love it! Bring it on!

"No man should have to be." - Ping Wo Me
#70 by Trolly McTroll
2003-11-12 20:08:45
Gamespy is the Evil.

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - ZEP
" If i ever have a daughter, I'm going to name her Trolly. - The_Joker
"Fuck are you stupid. Kiwi is a bird. Fucking moron. " - lwf
#71 by Your Friend
2003-11-12 20:13:05
Save anywhere is really just a crutch for crappy game players.  Little n00b bitches can't play the game for real so they need to save it and reload it every 5 seconds.  n00bs!

Comment Signature
#72 by Ergo
2003-11-12 20:13:25
#68 Jibble
Hey, I warned you.  If you didn't want it, you should have voted it out :)

I TRIED.

Cogite tute.
DVDs
#73 by DeeC
2003-11-12 20:23:09
Save anywhere is really just a crutch for crappy game players.  Little n00b bitches can't play the game for real so they need to save it and reload it every 5 seconds.  n00bs!


I would say this varies from game to game. Like some places in Max payne 2 for instance. If having to restart over and over and over again kills a game for me, I'd rather quicksave to play through it than to throw it in the wastebin. But then again, smart game design can prevent this, like in Call of Duty as zimbardo points out.

"No man should have to be." - Ping Wo Me
#74 by Warren Marshall
2003-11-12 20:26:01
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
I can feel my brain bleeding.

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#75 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-11-12 20:29:49
come guys just a little more and we'll be able to finish him off!!!

I kid cause I care.
#76 by DeeC
2003-11-12 20:39:19
Warren Marshall

Don't you think that it would be great if all games had a rewind function and bla. bla. bla. bla. blah!?

"No man should have to be." - Ping Wo Me
#77 by Warren Marshall
2003-11-12 20:41:07
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Bluh.

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#78 by Desiato
2003-11-12 20:42:21
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
Gamespy invokes DMCA, street cred drops to negative 103823.

...like the color of a tv screen tuned to a dead channel.
#79 by Jibble
2003-11-12 20:44:25
#78 Desiato

Gamespy invokes DMCA, street cred drops to negative 103823.

Wow, went down a point...I should probably sell my stock.

PANZERFAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUST
#80 by Squeaky
2003-11-12 21:28:48
#59 zimbardo_ugly
I never once used quick save on the default difficulty level of Call of Duty. It auto-saves often enough and the challenge is incredibly balanced - when you play that game, save anywhere in a game which is frustratingly difficult seems like a cop-out by the developer. Please note how much better the gameplay is when you don't have to F6 every time you fire a shot / jump a nasty rift. Save anywhere should be a Lacmus for game design acidity - if you absolutely have to implement it, you're not doing something right and your gameplay is sour.

except of course, when you want to quit the game and there's no save point anywhere in sight...

it's my onion and you can't change it!
DVDs
#81 by Phayyde
2003-11-12 21:30:50
Planetcrap is save everywhere.

DeeC you appear to be having lots of fun in your icon.

Beat to fit, paint to match.
#82 by DeeC
2003-11-12 21:35:50
Phayyde,

but I do have a lot of fun.. I do... but why?  muwahahaha!

"No man should have to be." - Ping Wo Me
#83 by Jibble
2003-11-12 21:37:07
I think you need to change your icon to Noodleboy.

PANZERFAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUST
#84 by CheesyPoof
2003-11-12 21:39:14
Games should be fun and fogiving enough that I don't care or have to worry about saving.  Welcome to fantasy land!
#85 by Jibble
2003-11-12 21:40:15
#84 CheesyPoof

Games should be fun and fogiving enough that I don't care or have to worry about saving.  Welcome to fantasy land!

Challenging != Unpossible

PANZERFAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUST
#86 by BobJustBob
2003-11-12 21:42:06
Challenging != Fun
Easy != Not Fun

Dood.
#87 by Squeaky
2003-11-12 21:43:50
having to replay the same portions of a game over and over and over and over again == teh sux

having to lose all progress when you quit because you can't save == teh sux

it's my onion and you can't change it!
DVDs
#88 by Greg
2003-11-12 21:46:14
Squeaky, there's a difference between allowing a player to save and quit whenever they want, and requiring them to save a lot to ensure they have enough health/ammo to make it through a given level. Functionally they are the same thing, but the intentions are worlds apart.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#89 by Squeaky
2003-11-12 21:46:41
Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance has the best non-save anywhere system I've seen. There's a checkpoint like every five seconds in the game or so. It's great. Mind you, the game is so mind-numbingly easy on 'normal' that I've never had to reload after dying... except on those stupid jumping puzzles in the theif hideout, that level was lame.

it's my onion and you can't change it!
DVDs
#90 by Squeaky
2003-11-12 21:48:16
#88 Greg
Squeaky, there's a difference between allowing a player to save and quit whenever they want, and requiring them to save a lot to ensure they have enough health/ammo to make it through a given level. Functionally they are the same thing, but the intentions are worlds apart.

Huh, I've never actually run into a situation regarding the latter. Which is probably why I've never been able to figure out why people wouldn't want save anywhere.

it's my onion and you can't change it!
DVDs
#91 by DeeC
2003-11-12 21:49:10
Three words: Lucasarts adventure games.

"No man should have to be." - Ping Wo Me
#92 by Squeaky
2003-11-12 21:50:59
#91 DeeC
Three words: Lucasarts adventure games.

the last lucasarts adventure game I played was Grim Fandango, where they designed the game so that it was impossible to die, fuck up, etc...

it's my onion and you can't change it!
DVDs
#93 by Jibble
2003-11-12 21:52:26
#92 Squeaky

#91 DeeC
Three words: Lucasarts adventure games.

the last lucasarts adventure game I played was Grim Fandango, where they designed the game so that it was impossible to die, fuck up, etc...

Monkey Island is the best example of this ever.  I don't think it was possible to screw something up so that you couldn't keep going in the game.  Granted, adventure games are dead, so it's kind of moot anyway.

PANZERFAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUST
#94 by DeeC
2003-11-12 21:55:37
Jibble,

actually it was. In Monkey Island 1, there was a bug that made it possible to put critical items into the cooking pot. Apart from that. Excellent. I just LOVED that rubber tree joke. Hadn't saved for hours before that.

"No man should have to be." - Ping Wo Me
#95 by Squeaky
2003-11-12 21:55:53
#93 Jibble
Monkey Island is the best example of this ever.  I don't think it was possible to screw something up so that you couldn't keep going in the game.  Granted, adventure games are dead, so it's kind of moot anyway.

I managed to fuck up Monkey Island 4 (I think, the 3d one). I got to this place where you need a clock to find your way around. I forgot to bring the clock and ended up wandering around for hours trying to find the beginning of the maze.

it's my onion and you can't change it!
DVDs
#96 by DeeC
2003-11-12 21:59:15
Monkey island 4 doesn't count by the way. Heh. It's the only lucasarts adventure, besides Loom that is, that I haven't bothered playing through.

"No man should have to be." - Ping Wo Me
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