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Save anywhere?  Bah.  Save EVERYWHERE!
November 12th 2003, 01:17 CET by Jibble

Okay folks, we've beaten the "save anywhere" debate to death...now there's a new wrench being hurled defiantly into the craws of the dissenters: "save everywhere all the time every second of the game".

We're talking Prince of Persia here.

From here.

Yes, it's true: One of the most original features in Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time has its roots in a game based on Donald Duck. When Mallat started prodding the team for ideas of a "gameplay keystone," Desilets brought up an idea he had proposed to the producer on his last Donald Duck game. In a nutshell, he wanted to let players rewind the game after they died. "I remember playing the Donald Duck game, and when I died, I wanted to just go back in time a few seconds instead of having to replay the whole level," says Desilets.

The producer on the Donald Duck game dismissed the idea, but Mallat seemed more receptive. "I think we all began to realize that by rewinding the game, the player would have a never-ending checkpoint," says Mallat. "We also knew a feature like that could become really important in an acrobatic game where you are always making jumps and trying to avoid traps." But while the idea sounded great, no one knew if it was technologically possible to let a player rewind the game on a PlayStation 2.


Turns out they figured it out, and it's included in the game (which was released a few days ago).  The original Prince of Persia was well known to be one of the most frustrating games of all time, with death looming around every corner, in every spike pit, on every floor tile.  While the new game seems to tout an incredible acrobatic system and the environments in which to properly use it, is this a case where the game is impossibly difficult just because it can be?
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#9 by Quicken
2003-11-12 01:51:56
gdunn@backmeup.net.au
Max Payne 3 should steal this feature. He should have to collect bad metaphors to be able to move back in time. Only everything happens exactly the same way again and he dies horribly... again.
#10 by Handsome B. Wonderful
2003-11-12 01:57:31
www.guitarvader.com/cosplay.htm
The game is quite fun, yes.

Charles Barkley eats a hamburger, says I hope those PETA people are outside by my car . . . I will run over them like dogs.
#11 by BobJustBob
2003-11-12 02:20:45
So all this time, listening to everyone bitch about The Flood in Halo, I thought the primary complaint was that you have to backtrack through previous areas. Now I know the truth.

Dood.
#12 by Sgt Hulka
2003-11-12 03:56:00
Bah! What we need is more Merv anywhere!

#13 by OwenButler
2003-11-12 03:56:54
http://blog.owenbutler.org/
omg! a glitch in the matrix.
#14 by BobJustBob
2003-11-12 04:05:44
Don't touch my source.

Dood.
#15 by UncleJeet
2003-11-12 04:12:52
I've been playing the PoP:SoT demo on the ps2, but oddly enough most of my playtime has been in the full PoP1 that they included on the disc.  I used to play that damned game for hours....I still remember how to get through most of the screens.

Anyway, I'll be trying the game out tonight.  The demo is lots of fun to play through, so I can't imagine that the game itself will suck horribly.

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#16 by BobJustBob
2003-11-12 04:25:48
So apparently the PS2 version contains POP1, the GC version unlocks POP1 through connection with the GBA game, and the Xbox version contains POP2. That's weird.

Dood.
#17 by Greg
2003-11-12 05:34:23
But do any of them come with the Konami SNES version?

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#18 by Bailey
2003-11-12 06:43:59
PoP2 sucked. Those fucking bird-head and shadow warriors ruined it for everyone everywhere ever.

re: Avatar Icon
#19 by Neo-Reaper
2003-11-12 07:37:16
neoreaper@excite.com http://octobermoon.homeip.net
But do any of them come with the Konami SNES version?

Good point.  That was easily the best PoP game.  The end battle was fantastic.

"Dream of me... and maybe, just maybe, this nightmare will end."
#20 by Warren Marshall
2003-11-12 14:44:37
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
This sounds awesome to me!  One of the programmers at work played through this game and I'll bet that the only reason he was able to was because of the rewind feature.

This means the designers can make the game as hard as they like, but it's still fair to the player.  A mistake in timing a jump or a slip in pressing a button at the exact right moment won't send you back through 20 minutes of the game you already played.  I like it!

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#21 by lwf
2003-11-12 14:55:52
The sad thing is I can't truly tell if you are being sarcastic or not. Are those exclaimation points marking more than meets the eye? I'm going to take the long way 'round just to be safe.

1, 2, 3... 4.
#22 by Warren Marshall
2003-11-12 15:19:09
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
I'm serious.  I've always been an advocate of save anywhere, and this is the next logical progression.  Being able to quickly rewind the last 10 seconds of gameplay is the perfect amount of time to retry a jump or whatever killed you.

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#23 by Trolly McTroll
2003-11-12 15:21:01
#22 Warren Marshall
I'm serious.  I've always been an advocate of save anywhere, and this is the next logical progression.  Being able to quickly rewind the last 10 seconds of gameplay is the perfect amount of time to retry a jump or whatever killed you.


Sometimes I've often thought that while playing a game like, oh ... Uhm.. UT, that it was the same second of gameplay replayed over and over and over.. Kinda like Deja Vu..  Weird, yet, tasty.

' Sup Trolly

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - ZEP
" If i ever have a daughter, I'm going to name her Trolly. - The_Joker
"Fuck are you stupid. Kiwi is a bird. Fucking moron. " - lwf
#24 by UncleJeet
2003-11-12 15:23:00
I agree that the rewind feature is a great concept.  However, even more brilliant would be a fast forward feature....you know, for those insipid games that just keep getting made over and over again?

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#25 by Matt Davis
2003-11-12 15:24:08
http://looroll.com
For a person like me who is on very limited time to play games (less than an hour on a good day lately) this is a perfect system, theres nothing worse than having to spend 30 mins of my next time playing trying to get past a bit I've already played twice the session before.

Troll, troll, troll your post, gently down the page...
#26 by Warren Marshall
2003-11-12 15:27:48
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#24 UncleJeet
I agree that the rewind feature is a great concept.  However, even more brilliant would be a fast forward feature....you know, for those insipid games that just keep getting made over and over again?

Like Nocturne.

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#27 by Your Friend
2003-11-12 15:31:18
Original feature?

I guess the person writing for Gamespot never played Blinx....

Blinx was not at all a great game, nor even a very good one, but it did this first.

Comment Signature
#28 by Battle-Dwarf
2003-11-12 15:32:19
www.myspace.com/OlSchoolMedia
I've been playing the PoP:SoT demo on the ps2, but oddly enough most of my playtime has been in the full PoP1 that they included on the disc.  I used to play that damned game for hours...



Same here (on PoP1, PS2).

The PoP:SoT has a one oddity in the spiked floor area where you can use the dagger to avoid (being spiked?) traps in order to rebound the ladder. I got past it, I just thought it odd.

You regain health and your exact position instantaineously when you pull back time. Was this the same with that cute cat game on brand XBOX?


Battle-D

Jibs, Jives and Jokes...
#29 by Battle-Dwarf
2003-11-12 15:32:57
www.myspace.com/OlSchoolMedia
Right, Blinx.  Yeah.

B-D

Jibs, Jives and Jokes...
#30 by Jibble
2003-11-12 15:33:14
#27 Your Friend

Original feature?

I guess the person writing for Gamespot never played Blinx....

Blinx was not at all a great game, nor even a very good one, but it did this first.

I was going to mention Blinx in my topic, but it was such a poor game it's barely worth mentioning.

PANZERFAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUST
#31 by UncleJeet
2003-11-12 15:38:44
I was just trying to imagine playing Unreal 2 with a rewind feature, or any feature that made me play it more than I had to just to slog through it.  My eyes bled.

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#32 by Creole Ned
2003-11-12 15:52:24
Since it's available for PC and console, anyone have any insight into which version of PoP: SoT controls better? Is it "You got a console title in my PC game" or "You got a PC title in my console game"?

The rewind feature sounds interesting. I'm not sure I'd like to see it in every action game out there, though. Wisely-chosen checkpoint saves can still work well and a game that allows save-anywhere would benefit from being designed as if the player only had the checkpoints available. Giving the player more choices is generally not a bad thing, as long as the choices are clear.

"I don't bemoan the great paste" - LPMiller
#33 by UncleJeet
2003-11-12 16:03:33
I wouldn't want to play it on the PC without a gamepad with analog controls, but apart from that I don't think it'd matter what you played it on.  I'm playing it on the ps2 right now, a console that I generally despise, and I'm greatly enjoying the experience.

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#34 by Warren Marshall
2003-11-12 16:11:07
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#31 UncleJeet
I was just trying to imagine playing Unreal 2 with a rewind feature, or any feature that made me play it more than I had to just to slog through it.  My eyes bled.

My parser is partially choking on this, but at any rate ... you might want to try going after a game I actually worked on if you're trying to get to me.  Wheel of Time, for instance.

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#35 by UncleJeet
2003-11-12 16:15:07
Er, check the undeserved ego?  When I think of bad games I've played in the past year, Unreal 2 just leaps to mind....notice I didn't say Bubble Bomb.

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#36 by Duality
2003-11-12 16:15:31
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
WoT sucks.

Actually, I don't know.  I've just never trolled that before.

#37 by Warren Marshall
2003-11-12 16:20:31
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#35 UncleJeet
Er, check the undeserved ego?  When I think of bad games I've played in the past year, Unreal 2 just leaps to mind....notice I didn't say Bubble Bomb.

Since I insulted Nocturne and in your next post after that you insulted Unreal2, I assumed it was aimed at me.  My mistake.

May your uncoordinated spamming continue...

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#38 by Warren Marshall
2003-11-12 16:20:47
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#36 Duality
WoT sucks.

Actually, I don't know.  I've just never trolled that before.

You'll never get your diploma at this rate.

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#39 by yotsuya
2003-11-12 16:22:50
jafd? Is that you?

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#40 by UncleJeet
2003-11-12 16:22:56
Yes, your Nocturne comment wounded me deeply as I've never known anyone to think it a bad game before!  Heh, get over yourself chief....Outside of Bubble Bomb, I don't imagine I've ever played a game you've worked on.  Sorry.  :(

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#41 by Duality
2003-11-12 16:24:59
Dualipuff@yahoo.com http://stratoscape.ath.cx/
You'll never get your diploma at this rate.

Oh who am I kidding.  I could never compete with the seasoned veterans!

#42 by Warren Marshall
2003-11-12 16:36:42
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#40 UncleJeet
Yes, your Nocturne comment wounded me deeply as I've never known anyone to think it a bad game before!  Heh, get over yourself chief....Outside of Bubble Bomb, I don't imagine I've ever played a game you've worked on.  Sorry.  :(

Trying ...

Nope, still not caring.  Sorry!

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#43 by Bailey
2003-11-12 16:58:24
Original feature?

I guess the person writing for Gamespot never played Blinx....

Blinx was not at all a great game, nor even a very good one, but it did this first.

Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it... and then rewind it, and repeat it some more.

re: Avatar Icon
#44 by Charles
2003-11-12 17:02:10
www.bluh.org
I think it would be neat to mix this feature in with a playback system, so you could watch yourself playing the game.

christmas is for shopping and the shopping god is everything
#45 by Jibble
2003-11-12 17:04:15
Yes, segment the screen into three parts.  The middle would be real-time, the left side would be 10 seconds ago, and the right side would be what'll happen if you try that jump or what's waiting around the next corner.

PANZERFAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUST
#46 by Greg
2003-11-12 17:06:44
I'm not a fan of save anywhere (the min/maxing aspect, not the "I have to quit, and don't want to redo large portions" aspect), because I feel there are alternatives that would be better for a player. This looks like one of those alternatives.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#47 by Greg
2003-11-12 17:07:03
Charles, that was also done in Blinx.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#48 by Greg
2003-11-12 17:08:14
Er, nevermind. I thought you mean rewinding and playing back with two copies of yourself running around. Not what you had talked about before.. replaying the entire game like Gran Turismo.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#49 by Charles
2003-11-12 17:10:02
www.bluh.org
I don't think blinx is a valid comparison because it wasn't something you could just do.  Before you could use any of the time mechanics, you had to go through a bunch of stupid item collecting hoops.  Not only that, but you couldn't play back your game, start to finish.  It was only for the tiny parts in which you used the record power up.

christmas is for shopping and the shopping god is everything
#50 by Phayyde
2003-11-12 17:20:52
Save everywhere is wasteful.  Save anywhere is right.  Demo record/playback is an old feature.  Why turn these things on alla time by default?

These ideas alone aren't particularly new or potent.

Beat to fit, paint to match.
#51 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-11-12 17:32:46
I think it would be neat to mix this feature in with a playback system, so you could watch yourself playing the game.

Hook up the ol' VCR and record the game. I had friends who did this back in the nes days when they were trying to finish contra without dying. Endless hours were wasted watching and analysing levels over and over, I don't remember if they actually succeeded or not though.

I kid cause I care.
#52 by Trolly McTroll
2003-11-12 17:40:36
#51 TheTrunkDr.
I think it would be neat to mix this feature in with a playback system, so you could watch yourself playing the game.

Hook up the ol' VCR and record the game. I had friends who did this back in the nes days when they were trying to finish contra without dying. Endless hours were wasted watching and analysing levels over and over, I don't remember if they actually succeeded or not though.



My favorite character from the facts of live TV show was always Blair, but only because of her glorious hair.

"..and Trolly McTroll is the best name EVER. I laugh every time I see it."  - ZEP
" If i ever have a daughter, I'm going to name her Trolly. - The_Joker
"Fuck are you stupid. Kiwi is a bird. Fucking moron. " - lwf
#53 by Jibble
2003-11-12 17:54:53
Okay, that's 50, now on to the land of off-topic.

CNN admits to making make college students look like idiots when it comes to politics.  I for one am pretty pissed that they'd stand in the way of someone asking a pertinent question in favor of evoking an EMM TEE VEE MOMENT OMGLOL!

PANZERFAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUST
#54 by DEATH KILLER INTERNATIONAL (INTERGALACTIC DIVISION
2003-11-12 18:10:46
deathkillerint@hotmail.com
JIBBA JIBBER JIBBLE JABBA

/me high-fives <insert recently deceased celebrity here>
#55 by DEATH KILLER INTERNATIONAL (INTERGALACTIC DIVISION
2003-11-12 18:11:21
deathkillerint@hotmail.com
`sup trolly, bob, joker, warran marshill

/me high-fives <insert recently deceased celebrity here>
#56 by DeeC
2003-11-12 18:22:04
Save anywhere, just not here.

"No man should have to be." - Ping Wo Me
#57 by UncleJeet
2003-11-12 18:53:00
Trying ...

Nope, still not caring.  Sorry!


Lol....next time try and express your not caring by not posting.  Methinks he doth protest too much....

I'm fighting terrorism by playing violent video games!
#58 by BobJustBob
2003-11-12 19:21:33
It still bothers me at a fundamental level that people can be against save-anywhere. "I want LESS player convenience!" But don't start that again.

Yo Death.

Dood.
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